Episode 54: Nuss For Us
Guest: Leslie Nuss Bamesberger (D) - Candidate for Indiana State Senate, District 5
Complete show notes and more at https://scottaaronrogers.substack.com
https://www.nussforus.com/
https://secure.actblue.com/donate/committee-to-elect-leslie-nuss-2
In my day job, I use a lot of different tools - saws, drills, nail guns, mostly just sanders and paintbrushes lately. Here at the HoosLeft podcast, I use a different set of tools. Often, it a microscope, closely examining issues at a granular level; and sometimes, it’s a satellite, for seeing the big picture from afar. This episode definitely falls into that second category.
Joining me for the interview today is Leslie Nuss Bamesberger, Democratic candidate for State Senate in Indiana’s 5th District, which includes parts of Porter and Jasper counties, plus all of Pulaski and White counties in the northwestern part of the state. This is not to suggest Nuss doesn’t have a series of well-thought-out policy priorities, because she absolutely does - including women’s health and safety, balancing power in Indianapolis, education and workforce development, strengthening organized labor, prioritizing mental health services, and protecting the environment - and we do dig into policy a little bit. But mostly, this is a broad philosophical conversation about trauma, healing, forgiveness, and accountability. It is a discussion about restorative justice versus vengeance and retribution. It is a look at what role government should play in caring for our most vulnerable by a couple of parents to medically complex children, an exploration of what it really means to build a “culture of life.”
Before we turn to the interview, PLEASE consider supporting HoosLeft with a paid subscription. I currently work as an independent craftsman during the day and work on this project whenever I can. There are so many more things I want to do here at HoosLeft - more campaign finance research, more live hangouts, and a daily episode if we can get there -but I need your help. If you can, visit scottaaronrogers.substack.com and subscribe at the paid level. For five dollars a month or $50 a year, you can help me push our state in a better direction, and maybe if we reach critical mass, I can put down my tool belt and devote my full time to you, to this project, and to Indiana’s future. So, if you have the means, pause right now, go to scottaaronrogers.substack.com and subscribe at the paid level.
Finally, a content warning. This conversation does contain a graphic description about a violent attack. If you need to skip that, it’s at approximately 9 to 12 minutes into the interview.
Cited in the interview:
Robust sub-reddit argument about “The Region”: https://www.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/16owzyx/do_you_consider_northwest_indiana_aka_the_region/
Yes, Pulaski County, Indiana is pronounced that way: https://pulaskionline.org/name/
University of Illinois recycling program today: https://fs.illinois.edu/waste-management-recycling/
Leslie Nuss artist site: https://leslienuss.com/
Incumbent Ed Charbonneau’s voting record on abortion: https://justfacts.votesmart.org/candidate/88705/ed-charbonneau?categoryId=2&type=V,S,R,E,F,P
What is restorative justice? https://law.wisc.edu/fjr/rjp/justice.html
Elite criminal impunity: https://www.vox.com/2018/7/19/17581546/donald-trump-russia-collusion-elite-impunity-immunity-torture-iran-contra-financial-crisis
Societal restorative justice: https://restorativejustice101.com/restorative-justice-in-truth-and-reconciliation-processes/
Smithsonian National Museum of African American History & Culture:
https://nmaahc.si.edu/
Smithsonian National Museum of The American Indian:
https://americanindian.si.edu/
The science of vengeance: https://www.vox.com/even-better/354549/why-we-seek-revenge-and-what-to-do-instead
Conservatives: rules for thee, not for me: https://slate.com/business/2022/06/wilhoits-law-conservatives-frank-wilhoit.html
Losing family over right-wing propaganda: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/12/fox-news-brain-meet-the-families-torn-apart-by-toxic-cable-news
Differing views on role of government: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2019/12/17/views-of-government-and-the-nation/
Wealth, power, and “The One Ring” wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction_to_power_in_The_Lord_of_the_Rings
Public schools MUST provide services to special needs kids: https://www.arcind.org/supports-services/school-age/
The best philanthropy is “pay your damn taxes”: https://inequality.org/great-divide/true-cost-of-billionaire-philanthropy/
Vouchers particularly harmful in rural areas: https://www.ncpecoalition.org/ruralvouchers
“Culture of Life” hypocrisy: https://www.salon.com/2015/03/18/we_just_agreed_we_would_disagree_jeb_bush_the_catholic_churchs_culture_of_life_hypocrisy/
Indiana Medicaid comes up short: https://www.lakeshorepublicmedia.org/2023-12-19/indiana-medicaid-program-is-1-billion-more-expensive-after-forecasting-error
Indiana insurers, hospitals accused of Medicaid fraud: https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/payers/indiana-insurers-hospitals-accused-medicaid-fraud-giant-whistleblower-lawsuit
Indiana’s hospital monopoly problem: https://www.thestarpress.com/story/news/local/indiana/2023/04/09/hicks-some-more-truth-about-hospital-monopolies/70089993007/
Attendant care cuts: https://www.wfyi.org/news/articles/despite-concerns-from-families-fssa-says-attendant-care-transition-will-continue-as-planned
Springfield, OH was an immigration success story: https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2024/09/13/why-the-far-right-lies-about-immigrants/
Indiana needs immigrants: https://www.courierpress.com/story/opinion/2024/09/25/hicks-immigration-is-the-only-hope-for-indianas-dying-small-towns/75346974007/
Loneliness epidemic: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2023/12/24/loneliness-epidemic-u-s-surgeon-general-solution/71971896007/
Once again, that was Leslie Nuss Bamesberger, Democratic candidate for State Senate, District 5, which includes White and Pulaski Counties, as well as parts of Jasper and Porter Counties in Northwest Indiana.
Quick aside on that area of the state. As somebody who grew up in Michigan City and lived in Highland for a couple years, I am of the place, and allowed to have an opinion, perhaps an unpopular one, on what exactly constitutes “The Region.” Whereas a Region maximalist might count the entire 219 area code, I am a Region minimalist - only Lake County north of US 30 counts in my book. Hammond, Whiting, Dyer, Munster, Highland, Schererville, East Chicago, Griffith, Gary, Merrillville, Hobart, Lake Station - a sea of asphalt and concrete where one town bleeds into the next. I expect a spirited argument in the comments section. And…. go!
But seriously, let’s turn to the substance of my discussion with Leslie. She has known unspeakable trauma, and faced a choice between retribution and reparation. In a way, this mirrors the fundamental difference between the political right and left regarding the role of government, what it can be, and what it should be. Are the mutual aid functions of the state to be thrown off, leaving only an authoritarian force, meant to impose order? Or is it a collective activity, all of us, through our fairly-elected representatives doing big things together that we couldn’t do alone? Indiana Republicans speak often about "building a culture of life,” but what does that look like? Because, in their decade-plus of supermajority rule I just don’t see it.
The air Hoosiers breathe and the water we drink are among the dirtiest in the country. Wouldn’t a culture of life protect these basic necessities?
GOP legislators have been making it increasingly easier to acquire and carry guns - now the leading cause of death among children and teens in Indiana. How is this building a culture of life?
Attorney General Todd Rokita and Governor Eric Holcomb are chomping at the bit to restart state-sanctioned executions after a 15 year pause. This is literally the opposite of a culture of life.
Is this culture, as Lincoln said, “dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal” or does Wilhoit’s Law - that “conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect,” hold true?
What is the nature of justice in such a system? Is it retributive - based on anger, vengeance, and punishment? Or is it restorative - based on mercy, forgiveness, and healing?
Because a grave injustice is being perpetrated against some of Indiana’s most vulnerable. In December 2023, leaders revealed that a forecasting error had caused a $1 billion shortfall in the state’s Medicaid program. In order to make up some of the difference, the Family and Social Services Administration proposed $300 million in cuts, much of which will be borne by the parents of medically complex disabled children, kids like my late son - and Leslie’s son.
Who sounds like an awesome kid. I’d like to meet him. And his mom. And cash in on that hug. It’s been a difficult year - I need all the hugs I can get.
But worse still, that shortfall wasn’t just some “forecasting error.” This, from Indiana Public Broadcasting just a couple weeks ago,
“Two former state officials filed a “whistleblower” lawsuit that alleged several Indiana hospital systems and managed care entities committed “tens, likely hundreds” of millions of dollars of Medicaid fraud.
The former officials filed the lawsuit in early 2021 when they obtained access to analysis from Indiana’s “fraud and abuse detection system” contractor, IBM Watson Health. The case was sealed until earlier this year.
The lawsuit alleges four companies in charge of managing Indiana Medicaid “knowingly and improperly” misused millions in Medicaid funds to pay claims that violate billing requirements. It also said six hospital systems obtained millions in funds by submitting thousands of false claims to Medicaid.”
Later in the article,
Starting in late 2017, the lawsuit said a senior executive at Indiana Medicaid “improperly directed the Program Integrity team to significantly curtail its efforts to utilize IBM Watson’s analysis and findings to recoup improper Medicaid overpayments” by the defendants. The lawsuit pointed to political pressure from lobbyists for the health insurers and the hospitals.
It also said this misconduct contributed to last year’s $1 billion budget shortfall.
The managed care entity defendants include Anthem, MDwise, Caresource and Coordinated Care, which operates as Managed Health Services or MHS. The hospital defendants include IU Health, Ascension, Community Health, Lutheran Health, Parkview Health, and Eskenazi – which is the public hospital division of the Health and Hospital Corporation of Marion County.
Now, Leslie and I have probably had enough interaction with one or more of these insurance companies or hospital systems to cover all of us, but I’ll bet most Hoosiers have had to interact with one of them at some point. And I’ll tell you what, as forgiving and understanding as she was in the wake of a violent attack, I want retribution against the crooks that would - in essence - defraud the most vulnerable among us to line their own pockets.
After all, in one case we’re talking about a kid pressured by her peers in a gang initiation, and in the other we’re talking about grown-ass adults who know damn well what they’re doing - they crunched the numbers, ran it by the boss, and decided corruption was more profitable than doing right by disabled kids. I’m ready to string ‘em up on Monument Circle like Christmas lights.
The rich, like the executives at the those healthcare monopolies, never face consequences when they hurt people. Through campaign cash and lobbying, they control the levers of a government, of justice, that create a culture, not of life, but of exploitation.
But, in the end, Leslie is right. Punishment alone does not fix the problem. We need restorative justice at a societal level - truth and reconciliation. The problems are systemic. These (alleged) fraudsters played within the exceptionally loose rules written to facilitate the maximization of profit. Wealth and power easily corrupts individuals. We must address the root causes of the rot in our society - capitalism, patriarchy, and white supremacy - if we want to build a real culture of life.
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Episode 54: Nuss For Us